Beta Academy Ghost Call

Now this one is pretty bad. Always remember that you have to stay in control of the conversation at all times. NEVER let the prospect stay in control. He got hung up because he wouldn’t accept the fact that I was looking for UFC Fighting and wanted to educate me to the fact that there is no such thing as UFC Style Fighting. When the truth of the matter is that the person on the phone is clearly looking for MMA classes for his son. Simply tell them yes was have a great UFC Fighting program here and go into your offer/script.

Most of this LONG call was a waste of time. Then the kicker is that he spent all of that time on the phone with me and simply let me get off the phone to call another school in his area. All the other school has to do is say YES to the question ‘do you offer UFC Training” and they’ll have a new prospect coming into their doors.

Lots of good lessons on this call

NOTE: This Is A Team Lloyd Irvin School Owned By Nakapan so this makes me very sad! 🙂 But just like Justin, Nakapan stepped up and put his school on the chopping block so that he can continue to get better.

Click the link below to listen to the call and PLEASE LEAVE YOUR COMMENTS ON THE CALL, WE ARE ALL HELPING EACH OTHER


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Leave A Reply (22 comments so far)


  1. Denny Strecker
    7 years ago

    Neither school asked any questions to learn how they could help the caller. They spent too much time trying to tell them what the school did. I generally use the phrase, “The best thing for you to do is come by and watch a class and actually SEE what we do. I would be happy to sit down with you then and answer all your questions. Are you free tonight at 6:30pm?”

  2. Carlos Castellanos
    7 years ago

    Lol, I found myself screaming ‘YES’ to the prospects question through the whole call. Even as a casual listener, it was pretty frustrating to listen to as a business owner. Considering that Team Lloyd Irvin Has had fighters in the UFC, that should have been a no brainer of an easy sell. I’m betting not many other teams or schools in the area can claim that. Perfect selling point lost.

    There was an opportunity to create rapor with the prospect regarding his sons experience in wrestling and boxing to find some existing common ground and how that would transfer well in the training offered at the school. Making them feel like they would fit right in. Lost.

    It’s scary to think how many prospects/money are lost per day in these interactions.

    Thanks for sharing these lloyd. An eye opener for anyone.

  3. Gary Hale
    7 years ago

    Not as bad as yesterday’s call but the guy on the phone did not pick up on any of the key things the caller was saying. He did not ask any leading questions to get more info out of the caller. Bottom line is that there was nothing done to get the caller excited about coming in and bringing his son to that school.

    I am in a totally different type of business but sales is sales. I tell my sales reps to demo to anyone that will listen. You never know who might be listening. I also tell them 50% of sales are made to the guy who just shows up, another 20% of sales goes to the guy that asks for the order. Do those two things consistantly and you will get 70% of your sales.

    Sorry for the basic sales lesson

  4. pj
    7 years ago

    i am really liking listening to these calls! i am learning a lot just being an outside listener — i have been in these situations and not really known what to say — i had a black belt in mma call me and i was like “what is a black belt in mma? georges st pierre and anderson silva do not say they are black belts in mma’ — not good — hindsight is 20/20 (although i am not at 20/20 yet)

    • lloydirvin
      7 years ago

      PJ, just remember it doesn’t matter what they say. Just get them in

  5. Michael Stinson
    7 years ago

    Ouch. Definitely a case of trying too much to educate over the phone. We do our very best to steer all educational content towards their introductory appointment. Something along the lines of, “When you and your son come in Saturday at 10 we can discuss how to get your son some ufc training in detail and let him try out the classes that will help him on his way” would have been good in my opinion.

    LOL At the Sonnen vs. Anderson reference 🙂

    • lloydirvin
      7 years ago

      LOL, I don’t think that he knew who Sonnen was

  6. Justin Garcia
    7 years ago

    Oh my god, that was terrible! How is Nak still even in business!? Lol. Whew, it sure feels good to have the spotlight somewhere else! Lol!

    As with the call to my own school, what was prevalent in both cases was the employees reluctance to STAY FOCUSED ON THE PURPOSE OF INQUIRY CALLS! What is it? To get people in the door! Nak’s employee was well intentioned, but clearly just needs to be reminded of why he’s answering the phone in the first place.

    What have I done since yesterday and that horrid call to MY school? Well… 1- Just about lost my voice 2- Spent about 4 hours in meetings regarding the call 3- Implemented a more detailed script 4- Played shot put with some office supplies 🙂 5- Revamped the training schedule for the employee of mine in the call.

    My point? From my school’s inception, I’ve never fixed ONE problem I didn’t know about, nor has any problem I have known about fixed itself!

    Thanks again, Lloyd!

  7. Dan
    7 years ago

    It sounded like the person from Beta more wanted to argue than make a sale. Isn’t the goal of the phone call to get the potential customer into the gym?

  8. Neil
    7 years ago

    Hey Lloyd

    Great stuff. In fact it prompted me to call my buddies school and record it for him. Found some similar problems, too. Here’s what I saw in Nak’s call:

    First off, the purpose of answering the phone is to sell the visit, nothing else. The call was too long, close the deal (getting him in the door) whether its an intro or just to meet this great D1 wrestler, sell the school when he arrives, sell the visit on the call

    Too many buzz words, guy said he only watches tv, doesn’t know what muay Thai is… speak his language, UFC, wrestling
    Show some excitement when he talks about his son, he is, you should share his enthusiasm, I would love to have a D1 wrestler drop in and share
    Need to capture the guys contact info and lead source (how much did it cost to get the phone to ring?)
    Need to ask questions and listen, 2 ears, 1 mouth, listen twice as much as you talk (listen to yourself for free, this costs money)
    Make an offer if you can’t get him in, send a free dvd or report (sales letters in disguise)
    Make an offer of a free trial of your member’s only newsletter for a few months to get his email and email him till he buys or dies
    And lastly, Smile when you talk, Nak’s guy sounded like he was at the morgue

    Just a few thoughts


  9. mannyg
    7 years ago

    I just get the feeling like these guys were taken off script by the voice changer. I understand that the script is there for that reason,but if you could coach someone else to call intead of you lloyd we might get a better result. Both times i would have thought something was up when i heard the robot on the phone lol.

  10. Erik
    7 years ago

    Speaking with Martial Arts schools, it so often seems like they are trying to run exclusive clubs instead of businesses. Isn’t this where these guys are trying to make their living?

    Even though I try hard to be respectful and polite with my introductions and inquiries I’ve been treated very rudely in recent conversations I’ve had with local MMA and Judo schools.

    You’ve got to cater to the customer, speak their language, be polite, happy and engaging. There’s no way I would go to this school after a conversation like that on the phone.

  11. Rudy Fischmann
    7 years ago

    Both this and yesterday’s call have given me a ton to think about. I’ve always been pretty aware of the importance of interactions/appearances once prospective customers enter the business or looks at a website, but never really thought much about the phone- yet it’s the way a huuuuuge chunk of prospective customers make first contact. It’s not enough to simply be engaging and polite (which is not what this guy was). There’s so many subtle and not-so-subtle ways a simple conversation impacts potential customers as it applies to a martial arts school.

    I could cut these employes some slack if it seemed like they were thrown off by the odd-sounding altered voices calling, but that’s still no reason to not to take every call seriously and remain on point as to what the end goal is- get the customer in the door. I know I was chomping at the bit to find out more about this guy’s kid even though the dad seemed a little odd in his questions. Could be BS but you never know until you meet the folks involved. Instead of finding ground in which to get them in the door, the school worker just tried correcting the caller. Lord knows some of my student’s parents are pretty weird. Last I checked, their money was worth the same at the bank.

    I know I am getting to work on a phone script right now and thinking through all the potential situations.

  12. Nakapan
    7 years ago

    This was probably my punishment for missing practice today. I’ve learned a lot from this experience and really appreciate the feedback from everyone. Master Lloyd actually called me today and the timing was perfect. I was right in the middle of a staff meeting. He voiced his disappointment with the process and I put him on speaker phone for everyone in the room to hear his constructive criticism. Improvements are on the way. Thanks for the help!

  13. Neil
    7 years ago


    Don’t be so sure. In a past business, I secret shopped hair salons and spa. I never had to change my voice because they didn’t know me. And we would do multiple calls, with a female shopper. The problems were mostly the same. The reality is, if you don’t give your people a script, they write their own after a few calls. So regardless of who calls, it would have been the same.

    Btw, the same goes for the intros. They’re just harder to secret shop.

    If you aren’t scripting every aspect of your business, even down to when and how to change the toilet paper in the johns, then your employees are writing their own. You only can expect what you inspect.

    If you want to see scripting at a high level, go to Cheesecake Factory. They have a manual for everything. If someone drops a fork there is a 17 step, 4 person act they follow.


  14. Tony
    7 years ago

    1. Purpose of talking to a lead on the phone is to get their information and book an appointment period. Not talk about your arts, your classes, the UFC, WWE, Mary Kay, CSI or how awesome the movie INCEPTION was….(although it was pretty awesome). 99% of callers have not a clue what they really want or what is best for them as far as their training is concerned. That’s why they NEED to come into your school. So they can see YOUR PROGRAM is more than they ever imagined martial arts could be.

    2. To book the appointment you need to build rapport with the caller and LEAD the conversation thru PROPER questioning. A script is always the best idea for this. Mentorship (from a qualified source) would be a really really smart idea when you prepare your scripts. It’s easy to know what you want, but it isn’t so easy to give the caller what they really want (which is to feel unknowingly you are a pro at taking care of your clients and always have their best interests at heart) and still get the information you want in a powerhouse manner. This takes learning the skills and of course, repping them! lol Also takes looking at them often and adjusting for better results thru proper guidance.

    3. The call overall was a trainwreck…..and what happens after ever trainwreck….learning occurs in the “boy” world. So I am sure he will either be trained and become a rockstar of a “intro booking specialist” or helped along into a position or place that would better utilize his natural talents and provide him an atmosphere to grow.

  15. Tony
    7 years ago

    By the way…..I have had my entire staff already listen to the first call (one of my newer guys was like….”I did that” lol) and will be playing the second one at our next staff meeting having them tell me every single “pivot point” during that conversation to get back to what’s really important…..getting their information and scheduling the caller for an introductory lesson so they can get educated on what we do and we can take care of them face to face.

  16. AJ
    7 years ago

    I run Academies in Indiana, and I know how frustrating it gets when uneducated person after uneducated person calls and wants to be a UFC Fighter. I can only hope my staff isn’t treating their phone calls in the same manner. I feel for Nak and for his employee that answered the phone, but we need to sell the appointment, we can educate them later.

  17. fedorlei
    7 years ago

    its funny hwo the stuck-up martial arts nerd attitude can make it so hard to relate with casual mma fans or even ‘karate parents’

    i think it comes down to know that like Master Lloyd said if you really Know that what you are teaching is far better than everyone elses product offereing around you, then you not only should get the person to coem take your class regardless of what they are looking for since you are doing them a favor. Instead it would be a crime NOT to tell them whatever it takes tog et them to come in and take part in the superior product, letting competitors steal your customers because of your opinion about martial arts is the action of an egomaniac. If you ever have been to a high-end wine store and some wine snooth can’t reccommend a bottle under 150$ then you know what I mean, gotta know your customers, product, competition, and expect every customers to be that business-changing client that mite be your next UFC fighter or Mundial champ and dojo posterboy/girl.

    catching customers is like trying to pick up a hot chick that is out of your league, your gonna get nowhere if you just talk about yourself all day, and if you act like your not sure if your the rite fit for them then you gonna get shot down at your first hesitation. getting into a internet forum like debate about something (l like “training UFC”) is just gonna turn anyone away as they will think you are too hardcore and maybe a stalker. keep it light and breezy, friendlya nd appraochable and let your strengths shine thru, and if you gotta tell some white-lies to get her to give ya brain then be all means do it, you won’t be the first nor the last….


    like alec baldwin said in the movie


  18. Dave
    7 years ago

    I love these calls. I feel bad for the guys featured in them a little though. I think that most employees don’t get the basic premise of the sales/marketing model. Each stage is a separate sale on its own. The print/internet marketing is a sales attempt to get them to call; the call is the sales attempt to get them to an appointment/free lessons; the appointment is the sales attempt at getting the actual program sold. You are rarely going to be successful skipping a step, and by attempting to do so you reduce your chances of success. You have almost no chance of signing someone up on the phone, stay focused on the model and make the appt.